I found this interesting thread on Reaper forum:
https://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.p ... 28534&st=0
Can anyone confirm those information?
Toxic paints?
-
Demi_morgana
- Chest of Colors
- Posts: 15233
- Joined: 9 Apr 2005, o 02:51
- Location: Eldorado
- Contact:
RE: Toxic paints?
can't confirm but I am afraid I've heard something like this about some paints but ain't sure if they were VGC... anyway Demi's right - it's a good reason to stop brush-licking...
-- Mahoń
Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
RE: Toxic paints?
I know about this. Sue Wachowski (aka Paintminion) is a friend of mine, and I have known her story for a while, but was not willing to say anything publicly yet for fear of the hysteria that she saw starting on the Reaper Forum. I do not usually read the Reaper Forums, so I just saw this. I was wondering if it was going to come to Sue having to make a public statement, and it looks like it did.
********************
From a different section of the Reaper Forums:
"Folks, I get home from a long weekend gone and find a HUGE topic regarding Vallejo Paints. I started a new topic so everyone would be sure to read my post and not go flying off the handle or start a riot over this.
First--no, I don't have time right now to read all those posts. I'm imagining hysteria from the first page I did read and can't help but want to set the current state of affairs straight and do it NOW.
Second--This is for my friends' sake and the sake of a good manufacturer that should not be maligned without anything concrete and in stone. We wouldn't do it to a forum member, and we shouldn't do it to any company. I'm not happy with what I've read so far.
So...Sue's story begins, something I wasn't gonna do, but I see no other way to set the community straight.
Hi, I'm Sue Wachowski. I have Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, a form of cancer. It was diagnosed earlier this year when I had surgery on a mass growing on my right temple. Prior to this, it was not thought to be cancerous at all. It was a shock for me, my family, and my friends. I went through much testing, met with doctors, and discovered my spleen was also involved, as well as the surgery site still. My bloodwork was relatively clear, as well as bone marrow and lymph nodes. I am one lucky woman.
I have completed my fourth cycle of chemotherapy. A "cycle' is where you go in for the chemotherapy medicines that are dripped into you through an IV (3 days in a row for me), and then you wait a few weeks for the body to recover, and then start all over again. I did not lose my hair, though I am dealing with many other chemo side-effects. Most people to see me, wouldn't know what I'm going through. With the help of family and friends, I've endured it, gotten through it, and although it has changed my life and that of my family, we kept life as normal as we could for all our sakes.
Part of the process was working out what I was exposed to that led to the lymphoma. I am very young for this, and don't fit the profile, or the usual causes. I have gone to many manufacturers and received their MSDS sheets for their products that I have used in the past 10 years. This was the focus of the doctor's search, as nothing else seemed to be a point of long term exposure except my hobby/painting work.
That search turned up one possible culprit, according to my doctor, in that cadmium was part of some of the Vallejo paints. He saw that and said that cadmium was definitely on the list of possible causes of lymphoma. He was very certain and worried about that It put the fear of bajeebus in me. I have then been in touch with, and been the go-between from Vallejo itself to my doctor for the purposes of this medical investigation. As I have a working relationship with them, I did immediately go to them with this information from my doctor. Vallejo has been supportive, open, and we've even talked on the phone last week (end of August). This is an old family-owned and run business for many many years and they were also concerned and willing to do whatever was needed. They are cooperating fully.
Currently, as it stands, there is research going on by my doctor into Vallejo's information that cadmium being in an inert state in the paints not considered toxic. Regulations here in the US and in Europe, are very strict on this and agree at this time, and Vallejo has been been given their status legally and properly.
People around Cadmium used in manufacturing, cadmium pigment manufacturing, are in danger of exposure. Did you know there's cadmium in cigarette smoking? In batteries? Certain metal manufacturing? It's all around us, but not always in a dangerous state, apparently. Not enough is confirmed by my doctor, so he has focused on trying to learn more about the products and exactly which cadmium in what state, can be the cause of exposure and the start of lymphoma. It is not 100% confirmed that cadmium had anything to do with it. Soon, I'll be getting more testing that can confirm the extent of my long term exposure--but cannot define what "caused" my lymphoma. No one knows.
Go ahead and Google "cadmium and lymphoma". The reading is dry, but interesting.
Both my doctor and the Vallejo chemist are working on this issue. The doctor has admitted that he needs to know more. Vallejo has said they need to know more. They are working on it, but we have nothing to go on as concrete at this time. Bottom line is, we may never pinpoint the cause of my lymphoma, but it is due to exposure to something either ingested or absorbed through the skin. Do you know what they coat brushes with for anti-fungal and preservation properties? You don't want it in you either. Do you know where your products are manufactured? Some countries have strict regulations, some do not, nor can you get information about specific chemicals used.
In this age of Chinese manufacturing scandals, you can't assume things, you can't ignore things. You need to know, or find something to trust in--such as the testing here in the US and in Europe. Vallejo is at this point innocent, and adheres to very strict testing--in many countries, stricter than the US. We all know that changes can happen in rules and regulations, and IF this is something that needs changing, it will have a world-wide-affect, and not just on this hobby. Currently it hasn't gone that far, and cannot without more proof one way or the other. This is not a clear case by any stretch. Lymphoma has been around for years, and is on the rise, and there are no answers for a cause yet.
I am no longer a brush licker, nor do I find it funny anymore. It is your choice how much danger you wish to put yourself in, but I've asked my friends to stop, especially with any brushes made in asia at this time that have no info regarding their manufacturing process and chemicals involved. I have a professional mask I use for any and all spraying--this isn't the cheapo mask you can buy in the store. I wash my hands frequently when working with any hobby products. Yes, I did take Vallejo out of my paintbox for the time being. I look at everything around me and wonder what it was coated with, manufactured with, and where. I'm not hyper about chemicals around me, but being married to a chemist (and yes, he was grilled by the doctor big-time) and going through the treatment of my cancer, I appreciate some caution and look to find as many answers as I can.
So there is my story and state of debate over what caused this in my case. Much has only happened in the time since Gen Con. Vallejo is being looked at very closely, but may not be an issue at all. The answer may never be known for certain. I don't want them dragged through the mud for something that may or may not be harmful without proper facts.
In the meantime, I am as well as I can be. This cancer does not kill, but it can make things danged difficult, inconvenient, and scary. I will live with this for the rest of my life, but we hope with the treatment we pursued that I will have many many years without problems--and even then, there are solutions. I am currently waiting to see another specialist at Rush in Chicago this next Friday who will help determine our next course of action medically for me.
The search is continuing and I have tried to keep all of my friends in the loop so they know what is happening and what is being done about it, but I've never said anything on any of the boards or forums about this before. Hopefully the current known facts being brought to light will help people understand what's happening and why, and instill some caution--but it doesn't mean you have to stop using your paints or any hobby product. I only ask that you use common sense and caution.
In a few days I might go over and see what the rest of the posts said on the other post, but at least for now I can say I've given you straight facts to work with and I can hopefully stop seeing posts that drag Vallejo down for something that isn't certain yet. Let's just end the rumors right here.
Sue"
*******************
The current advice is to break any brush-licking habit you may have, make certain children and pets cannot get into your paint water, and don't let children paint with VGC or MGC without serious supervision.
She has been amazingly brave and upbeat during this entire thing. Sue is only a few years older than me with a young-ish daughter. This has been very scary for all of us, and her courage and strength is shaming and humbling at times. It is even more frightening for her in a sense that the reputation of a well-respected company could come under fire by her saying anything publicly. And this says nothing of her reputation within the industry/hobby that could be called into question for saying anything publicly.
Sue has gotten very lucky with the chemo treatments. She had side-effects, but they were not life threatening. She will be undergoing some sort of treatment for at least 2 more years, but is considered "in remission", is the last news I got.
And anyone who tries to joke with me about brush-licking not being dangerous or saying this is all BS or anything else of that nature will learn that I really do have a temper. I could have lost a friend, and we could have lost a good lady. Don't go looking for my temper on this. It won't be funny when I get finished.
********************
From a different section of the Reaper Forums:
"Folks, I get home from a long weekend gone and find a HUGE topic regarding Vallejo Paints. I started a new topic so everyone would be sure to read my post and not go flying off the handle or start a riot over this.
First--no, I don't have time right now to read all those posts. I'm imagining hysteria from the first page I did read and can't help but want to set the current state of affairs straight and do it NOW.
Second--This is for my friends' sake and the sake of a good manufacturer that should not be maligned without anything concrete and in stone. We wouldn't do it to a forum member, and we shouldn't do it to any company. I'm not happy with what I've read so far.
So...Sue's story begins, something I wasn't gonna do, but I see no other way to set the community straight.
Hi, I'm Sue Wachowski. I have Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, a form of cancer. It was diagnosed earlier this year when I had surgery on a mass growing on my right temple. Prior to this, it was not thought to be cancerous at all. It was a shock for me, my family, and my friends. I went through much testing, met with doctors, and discovered my spleen was also involved, as well as the surgery site still. My bloodwork was relatively clear, as well as bone marrow and lymph nodes. I am one lucky woman.
I have completed my fourth cycle of chemotherapy. A "cycle' is where you go in for the chemotherapy medicines that are dripped into you through an IV (3 days in a row for me), and then you wait a few weeks for the body to recover, and then start all over again. I did not lose my hair, though I am dealing with many other chemo side-effects. Most people to see me, wouldn't know what I'm going through. With the help of family and friends, I've endured it, gotten through it, and although it has changed my life and that of my family, we kept life as normal as we could for all our sakes.
Part of the process was working out what I was exposed to that led to the lymphoma. I am very young for this, and don't fit the profile, or the usual causes. I have gone to many manufacturers and received their MSDS sheets for their products that I have used in the past 10 years. This was the focus of the doctor's search, as nothing else seemed to be a point of long term exposure except my hobby/painting work.
That search turned up one possible culprit, according to my doctor, in that cadmium was part of some of the Vallejo paints. He saw that and said that cadmium was definitely on the list of possible causes of lymphoma. He was very certain and worried about that It put the fear of bajeebus in me. I have then been in touch with, and been the go-between from Vallejo itself to my doctor for the purposes of this medical investigation. As I have a working relationship with them, I did immediately go to them with this information from my doctor. Vallejo has been supportive, open, and we've even talked on the phone last week (end of August). This is an old family-owned and run business for many many years and they were also concerned and willing to do whatever was needed. They are cooperating fully.
Currently, as it stands, there is research going on by my doctor into Vallejo's information that cadmium being in an inert state in the paints not considered toxic. Regulations here in the US and in Europe, are very strict on this and agree at this time, and Vallejo has been been given their status legally and properly.
People around Cadmium used in manufacturing, cadmium pigment manufacturing, are in danger of exposure. Did you know there's cadmium in cigarette smoking? In batteries? Certain metal manufacturing? It's all around us, but not always in a dangerous state, apparently. Not enough is confirmed by my doctor, so he has focused on trying to learn more about the products and exactly which cadmium in what state, can be the cause of exposure and the start of lymphoma. It is not 100% confirmed that cadmium had anything to do with it. Soon, I'll be getting more testing that can confirm the extent of my long term exposure--but cannot define what "caused" my lymphoma. No one knows.
Go ahead and Google "cadmium and lymphoma". The reading is dry, but interesting.
Both my doctor and the Vallejo chemist are working on this issue. The doctor has admitted that he needs to know more. Vallejo has said they need to know more. They are working on it, but we have nothing to go on as concrete at this time. Bottom line is, we may never pinpoint the cause of my lymphoma, but it is due to exposure to something either ingested or absorbed through the skin. Do you know what they coat brushes with for anti-fungal and preservation properties? You don't want it in you either. Do you know where your products are manufactured? Some countries have strict regulations, some do not, nor can you get information about specific chemicals used.
In this age of Chinese manufacturing scandals, you can't assume things, you can't ignore things. You need to know, or find something to trust in--such as the testing here in the US and in Europe. Vallejo is at this point innocent, and adheres to very strict testing--in many countries, stricter than the US. We all know that changes can happen in rules and regulations, and IF this is something that needs changing, it will have a world-wide-affect, and not just on this hobby. Currently it hasn't gone that far, and cannot without more proof one way or the other. This is not a clear case by any stretch. Lymphoma has been around for years, and is on the rise, and there are no answers for a cause yet.
I am no longer a brush licker, nor do I find it funny anymore. It is your choice how much danger you wish to put yourself in, but I've asked my friends to stop, especially with any brushes made in asia at this time that have no info regarding their manufacturing process and chemicals involved. I have a professional mask I use for any and all spraying--this isn't the cheapo mask you can buy in the store. I wash my hands frequently when working with any hobby products. Yes, I did take Vallejo out of my paintbox for the time being. I look at everything around me and wonder what it was coated with, manufactured with, and where. I'm not hyper about chemicals around me, but being married to a chemist (and yes, he was grilled by the doctor big-time) and going through the treatment of my cancer, I appreciate some caution and look to find as many answers as I can.
So there is my story and state of debate over what caused this in my case. Much has only happened in the time since Gen Con. Vallejo is being looked at very closely, but may not be an issue at all. The answer may never be known for certain. I don't want them dragged through the mud for something that may or may not be harmful without proper facts.
In the meantime, I am as well as I can be. This cancer does not kill, but it can make things danged difficult, inconvenient, and scary. I will live with this for the rest of my life, but we hope with the treatment we pursued that I will have many many years without problems--and even then, there are solutions. I am currently waiting to see another specialist at Rush in Chicago this next Friday who will help determine our next course of action medically for me.
The search is continuing and I have tried to keep all of my friends in the loop so they know what is happening and what is being done about it, but I've never said anything on any of the boards or forums about this before. Hopefully the current known facts being brought to light will help people understand what's happening and why, and instill some caution--but it doesn't mean you have to stop using your paints or any hobby product. I only ask that you use common sense and caution.
In a few days I might go over and see what the rest of the posts said on the other post, but at least for now I can say I've given you straight facts to work with and I can hopefully stop seeing posts that drag Vallejo down for something that isn't certain yet. Let's just end the rumors right here.
Sue"
*******************
The current advice is to break any brush-licking habit you may have, make certain children and pets cannot get into your paint water, and don't let children paint with VGC or MGC without serious supervision.
She has been amazingly brave and upbeat during this entire thing. Sue is only a few years older than me with a young-ish daughter. This has been very scary for all of us, and her courage and strength is shaming and humbling at times. It is even more frightening for her in a sense that the reputation of a well-respected company could come under fire by her saying anything publicly. And this says nothing of her reputation within the industry/hobby that could be called into question for saying anything publicly.
Sue has gotten very lucky with the chemo treatments. She had side-effects, but they were not life threatening. She will be undergoing some sort of treatment for at least 2 more years, but is considered "in remission", is the last news I got.
And anyone who tries to joke with me about brush-licking not being dangerous or saying this is all BS or anything else of that nature will learn that I really do have a temper. I could have lost a friend, and we could have lost a good lady. Don't go looking for my temper on this. It won't be funny when I get finished.
"I like gypsy moths and radio talk
Cause it doesn't remind me of anything"
Cause it doesn't remind me of anything"
-
Demi_morgana
- Chest of Colors
- Posts: 15233
- Joined: 9 Apr 2005, o 02:51
- Location: Eldorado
- Contact:
RE: Toxic paints?
damn 
once again - I have to stop this silly habit here...
once again - I have to stop this silly habit here...
RE: Toxic paints?
Everybody has to.... even if it's difficult.
Thanks, Tanya, that's.... well... I don't know what to say
Thanks, Tanya, that's.... well... I don't know what to say
-- Mahoń
Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
-
Nameless
- The Better Choice
- Posts: 17415
- Joined: 21 Jun 2005, o 17:41
- Location: Silesia, Poland
- Contact:
RE: Toxic paints?
Thank you Tanya for posting that.
Sue - you'll probably never read this, but my thoughts are with you (due to many personal reasons)
Sue - you'll probably never read this, but my thoughts are with you (due to many personal reasons)
RE: Toxic paints?
Poor Sue, if you read this, I hope you fully recover soon.
Tanya, thanks for the input. I have not been really licking my brushes, only occasionally, but I'm gonna stop even that.
Tanya, thanks for the input. I have not been really licking my brushes, only occasionally, but I'm gonna stop even that.
RE: Toxic paints?
I'll pass the well wishes on to Sue. She appreciates every good wish and thought that comes her way. :rose:
She's doing really well. She has to wait a little while for the side effects of the chemo to go away, and they have the bills to deal with, but she's alive and getting healthier and stronger all the time. She's also been told that they are not going to do radiation therapy, which is very good news. There were going to be massive complications if they had since the site where they took the first tumor out is on the side of her head. So it's much better than it could have been.
She's doing really well. She has to wait a little while for the side effects of the chemo to go away, and they have the bills to deal with, but she's alive and getting healthier and stronger all the time. She's also been told that they are not going to do radiation therapy, which is very good news. There were going to be massive complications if they had since the site where they took the first tumor out is on the side of her head. So it's much better than it could have been.
"I like gypsy moths and radio talk
Cause it doesn't remind me of anything"
Cause it doesn't remind me of anything"
Good to know she doesnt have to do radiation, i know how agressive it can get... even if i hadnt the pleasure to know her i wish a good recovery and some big kisses are going her way.
Thanks for letting us know, i will avoid licking my brushes from now on, even if im more concerned about handling GS.
Thanks for letting us know, i will avoid licking my brushes from now on, even if im more concerned about handling GS.
